"Into the Heart of Middle-earth" Interview with Kaitlyn Facista

The new book from @TeawithTolkien is available now!

Mae govannen, friends! Josh here with a special treat for you. Today is the release date for a wonderful new book on Tolkien titled Into the Heart of Middle-earth by Kaitlyn Facista (who some of you may already know as @TeawithTolkien). I sat down with Kaitlyn to interview her about the book and share it with you all. Interested in learning more? Visit www.teawithtolkien.com/book for more details!

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

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Into the Heart of Middle-earth is available now! Find it at teawithtolkien.com/book

Josh: Well, hello, Kaitlyn! Welcome. I’m so excited to have you in this issue of Jokien with Tolkien to focus on your new book. Can you introduce yourself? I’m sure some readers are already familiar with you and who you are, but there are also readers who won’t be. So tell us a little bit about yourself and the Tea with Tolkien community and anything you’d like to share about that.

Kaitlyn: Well, thank you for having me, too. This is really exciting and I’m super hyped to talk about all of this in the book! My name is Kaitlyn, as you stated, I am a huge Tolkien fan. I’m also a wife and a mom. And I’m pretty much a stay-at-home mom. Tea with Tolkien is what I do in my free time, and so to be able to have it grow in this way has just been insane.

But the Tea with Tolkien community is an online community founded on the idea that we love Tolkien and we want to carry the principles of Middle-earth into our own lives. So I say that we’re inspired by the works, the life, and the Catholic faith of J.R.R. Tolkien. And, of course, anyone’s welcome in our community, but those are the things that we love to talk about.

We mostly do a book club. I would say that’s the core of our community. We usually do a couple different big book clubs every year. But other than that, we’ve become a pretty tight-knit group that we all go through life together. So I have a Discord server, and that’s like the hub where everything happens. And we’re all just hanging out and doing life together.

I appreciate how you phrased it that it’s about the works, the life, and the faith of Tolkien and that those are the distinctives of your group. There are a lot of people out there who enjoy Tolkien and love Tolkien and appreciate different aspects. But those are the things you’re zeroing in on.

Yeah. And it’s great because as our community grows, there are so many people who join. And we all have different perspectives and different niche interests and levels of expertise about Tolkien. And we all bring that to the table. And I have learned so much from other people in my Discord. Like, one of my moderators is super, super knowledgeable about when Tolkien was changing his mind on different things. So we’ll be talking about something in the Silmarillion. And then he’s like, “Well, actually, in 19 blah-blah-blah he actually had this draft.” And so that adds so much depth. And it kind of is like that in every aspect.

Like I know a lot about Tolkien’s faith and his life to an extent. But then someone comes in who’s an expert in Norse mythology and they bring so much more. So, yeah, it’s really cool to be collaborative. And really, it is just a community. I’m the organizer of it, but it’s not about me.

Right, exactly. It’s not the Tea with Kaitlyn community. It’s Tea with Tolkien. And you’re setting the table. You’re inviting people to have that conversation about him.

Absolutely. Yeah, I like that way of putting it.

You’ve got a book releasing today called Into the Heart of Middle-earth! So congratulations on that. Can you tell us a little bit about the book? What’s the book about, if you were to distill it down into a core message?

Into the Heart of Middle-earth is a spiritual journey for the Tolkien fan who wants to dive deeper into the themes and virtues of The Lord of the Rings in order to carry those lessons into their own daily lives.

A lot of us want to memorize facts about Lord of the Rings or learn about the lore. But the way that I see it is, what’s the point if we aren’t taking that and then bringing it back into our own lives in some way?

Because I think Tolkien can really teach us so much. He has so much wisdom written into his stories. And so we want to be transformed in a way. I think all literature can be transformative. And Tolkien is the best. He can really change your life.

The book explores basic themes of The Lord of the Rings like fellowship, discernment, courage, light and high beauty. But then it also goes into some deeper topics like, what does it mean to be a Hobbit at heart? What does it look like to be a steward? How can hospitality be life-saving? How can I anchor myself in hope amidst darkness? And how can grief be transformative?

So you’re going through Tolkien’s stories and wrestling with your own self as you go and exploring how Middle-earth can change your own life.

I’ve read the book, and first of all, it’s fantastic! I really enjoyed reading it. And you pull in a lot of stuff from The Silmarillion and from Tolkien’s life and from his letters. And that could be overwhelming to somebody. Like, “Wow, this is too much.” But I didn’t feel that. In reading it, it was a very pleasant read. I wasn’t like, oh, I can’t keep track of all this. You were very good at bringing all that information but not overwhelming people.

And I appreciated, like you said, that focus on applicability. It’s great to learn all this, but what does it mean for me? And you intentionally gave space at the end of every chapter with the sections that are called “The Road Goes On, like with “A Walking Song.” Is that what kind of what you were tying into?

Yeah, and it’s like, you’re stepping out onto the road and you’re sitting down to read the book. But then I want you to get up and have some action and movement at the end of each chapter. I really wanted it to be like, you don’t just read the book, but you have these…it’s not necessarily a to-do list, but it’s something to get your thoughts going of, like, what can I do? How can I apply this? So these are little suggestions.

I’d love to hear how the book came to be. Could you share a little bit about how having your community and your own personal love of The Lord of the Rings translated into writing a book in general? And then why this book? Why not some other book?

Well, the concept of writing a book was very terrifying. And it was never something that I was seeking out because I’m so busy at all times. And so I kind of try to be very passive in my life with opportunities. I don’t necessarily seek things out. I’m almost like Bilbo just chilling. And then, you know, a wizard’s knocking on my door like, “Hey, do you want to write a book?”

And so really what it was, was an editor from Ave Maria Press, my publisher, emailed me and he was like, “Hey, do you want to write a book?” And I was like, well, you know, I probably shouldn’t say no. And then I worked with my editor to come up with like four different book ideas. And then he helped me narrow it down and find something that would be a great introduction to my community. Because I feel like my book is like the culmination of all my work from the last 9-10 years with Tea with Tolkien. And so it’s almost like something you can package and say, “Hey, do you want to get involved in Tea with Tolkien? Here’s this book.” And instead of having to comb through years and years of articles or videos on my website, it’s like kind of in this compact, easy to digest product. And so I love that it feels like my message and kind of what Tea with Tolkien stands for just like boiled down in a nice, happy little book.

It’s been crazy, though. Not something that I would have chosen to do. I never would have been like pitching publishers just because it’s a big commitment to write a book. But now that I’ve done it, obviously, I’m so happy that I did.

I see that alignment when you talk about the values of the community, like Tolkien’s life, Tolkien’s works and Tolkien’s faith and I admire your openness to those things. Like you said, you’re not necessarily seeking these things out, but if they come, if they knock on the door, it’s like, “Why, why would I say no? Why shouldn’t I say yes?”

Well, that’s really how it’s been with like everything with Tea with Tolkien and pretty much every opportunity I’ve gotten. I just try to keep my head down and do my work and kind of do what I feel like is my purpose. And then I get emails from people, like, even with like the Rings of Power stuff with Amazon, like, do you want to come and do this thing? And I’m like, well, I probably shouldn’t say no, because it seems like a good opportunity. And it’s the same with when I got to, I got to interview some of the actors on the red carpet. They asked me if I wanted to, and I actually said no. I was like, no, I’m too scared. I can’t do that. And then I’m like, no, like I should be brave. It really does feel like I’m like Bilbo and I’m, I don’t want to leave my house, but I kind of have to.

I just feel like this is what I’m meant to be doing, talking about Tolkien and sharing resources about Lord of the Rings, making it more approachable for people, because I feel like Tolkien’s changed my whole life and the way that I view the world. And I feel like he can for others too. So I feel like that’s like one of my life’s purposes, even though that seems a little dramatic, maybe.

I don’t think it’s dramatic at all! I think it’s wonderful.

And how many people search for something where they feel like that, you know, and you found it and you want to share it too, to be functioning as that, as like this guide. That’s kind of the role in the book that you play is you’re guiding people through like the story of The Lord of the Rings. I think you do a very good job of it both in the book and in the community in general too and I love that the book is an extension of all of that.

You spend the opening chapters of the book describing how to cultivate the Shire of your own heart before branching out into the outside world. Why is that so important to do before moving out?

Well, I mean, it almost reminds me of like when you’re on the airplane and they say like, if the life masks are coming down, put yours on first. In order to go out and help the world, you do need to do some work internally.

And I think, especially in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, the Shire is this foundation for the story, for the characters, but also for the readers. Because as you’re immersed in all of this goodness and this beauty and kind of this quaint, simple life, you see that it’s nourishing, it’s beautiful, but it’s also something that’s in peril. Spending so much time in this at the beginning, as we do in The Lord of the Rings—and I kind of tried to mirror that same journey in my book—it strengthens us for the journey ahead because we have this foundation and so much goodness, but it also helps us understand what’s at risk and what you’re fighting for.

Because if you didn’t, if you weren’t familiar with the Shire in The Lord of the Rings, you wouldn’t really feel Frodo’s commitment to it and understand the gravity of what he’s having to let go of and how much he loves it. I really wanted to kind of follow a similar framework because it’s so foundational to the story.

What does being a Hobbit at heart entail in your view? And how does it connect with the journey that you’re guiding readers through in the rest of the book?

Being a Hobbit at heart is about honoring these things that make Hobbit life beautiful while also recognizing that sometimes in order to protect these things, it means giving them up.

Frodo had this deep love for the Shire and he knew he had to be willing to lose it in order to save it. And even after the Shire is saved, he still has this deep loss. And there are many, many ways that this can translate into our own lives.

It comes down to the fact that we need to be willing to make ourselves uncomfortable for the sake of others. Bilbo is not wanting to go on an adventure because they make you late for dinner. Sometimes we have to be late for dinner and that’s just a part of living your life and kind of caring for others. And that’s such a huge part of life. We—especially, I think, in the US—we are so individualistic and we only really want to care about ourselves. We don’t even know our neighbors. And that is just not good. Society can’t exist in such a way for long. And it’s just so important for us to embrace this spirit of being a Hobbit at heart because there are people who need us and we have these special gifts. Each of us has our own special perspective or talent or way that we can contribute to society. And if we just serve only ourselves, that isn’t really going to end well.

That’s so important to be willing to be inconvenienced—or worse—for the sake of other people. Because like you said, we do have things to share things that people need just in general. And then the things that are particular about ourselves, the ways that we’re able to bless other people if we would just let that happen and be open to it.

Both Bilbo and Frodo are called to something outside of themselves, something greater than themselves. That’s just so tragic too, about Frodo and his sacrifice: he has that awareness before even leaving the Shire. He says it to Gandalf: “I should like to save the Shire…I feel that as long as the Shire lies behind, safe and comfortable, I shall find wandering more bearable: I shall know that somewhere there is a firm foothold, even if my feet cannot stand there again.” I don’t think I appreciated until more recently that he’s counting the cost and he’s willing to pay it partly because he has that foundation. And so how do we move in that direction?

And the thing that I find really striking too, with The Lord of the Rings is Frodo actually does, he does lose the Shire. Like you would think a lot of times in a story, someone thinks they’re going to have to sacrifice. It happens in movies all the time. Someone sacrifices their life, but, oh, they didn’t, they didn’t actually die. Frodo truly does lose the Shire. And even though he does get to go to the Blessed Realm later, that’s not what he wanted. He wanted his ordinary Hobbit life and he truly had to lose that. And so it’s really tragic, but it’s also so beautiful and very inspiring. He’s a great example for all of us.

I want to switch gears a little bit because we’ve talked about the story itself that you’re guiding people through and some of the things that you want them to pick up from it. But Tolkien’s life and faith are a focus of the community and they’re a focus of the book. Would you share some about what it means to you?

You’re a Catholic yourself and you’re able to identify with Tolkien in that way. I’ll just preface it by saying I am a Christian, but I’m not a Catholic. And so there’s ways that I appreciate Tolkien’s faith in general. But then there’s ways that I do feel not an outsider, but there’s a little bit more of a distance from me as a Protestant.

So if you could share about that for your own life? What is it like to be able to empathize with Tolkien, identify with him in that way?

Sure. That’s a great question. It’s not really something I thought about before, but I feel like I can almost see him as a mentor type of figure in a sense, because I’m a convert to Catholicism. I’ve been Catholic for like 12 years now. But before I became Catholic, I didn’t know a single Catholic. We didn’t have any Catholic friends. I went to a Protestant school. So everyone there was not Catholic.

And so Tolkien felt like the first Catholic person that I kind of quote unquote knew, because I felt like I had learned so much from him growing up as a teenager reading The Lord of the Rings. And when I learned that he was Catholic, I was like, wait a second. This is a guy I really respect. And I feel like he gets it. When I would read Tolkien, it was like the philosophy that was underlying the book made things click for me.

And so it was really because of that that I then started looking into Catholicism. So he’s almost like a Gandalf figure for me, where I’m following him along. And of course, it’s not like in a sense where he becomes an idol, but he’s always pointing me to the truth and the beauty and goodness.

And so for me, that has been super cool. And just so encouraging, especially when you get to more kind of things that Catholics do that Protestants don’t, like the Blessed Sacrament. He’s super big on that.

And so as I’m learning about that and kind of seeing echoes of it in like Lembas, for instance, it’s just been super cool and encouraging, really. I see him as almost like my patron saint, even though he’s not technically a saint.

As you were recently looking more into Tolkien’s faith for this book, and specifically the Catholic element, did it have an impact on your own faith?

Well, I learned a lot about some different saints. And there are some saints I hadn’t even heard of that Tolkien had written about.

He actually has a poem about St. Brendan the Navigator in The Notion Club Papers. I had never even heard of this guy. So I got to learn about him and his life. There’s a story about the voyages of St. Brendan in Ireland. And it’s more like a fantastical story, not necessarily realistic. But that was super cool.

And I also didn’t know that he had translated some portions of the book of Jonah and Job for the Jerusalem Bible. So seeing Tolkien bringing his own interests and gifts and talents, it was almost like a bridge between his literary life and his faith life with him using what he knows to kind of pour himself into that project.

And I thought that was really cool and inspiring because you can see him pursuing his passions to the fullest extent and doing everything he can in the same way as Frodo does or Bilbo. So I found that really inspiring.

Can you share something that you learned or appreciated anew about Tolkien himself, about Middle-earth, and about yourself in writing this book?

So for Tolkien, definitely learning about his faith and all of the different saints. I also didn’t realize quite how much reading he did just in general, but also related to religion. I found this book called Tolkien’s Library by Oronzo Cilli. And it had tons and tons. Like Tolkien was reading biographies of the saints. If he wasn’t writing, it seemed like he was reading. And so that was really cool to see all of these different stories that he’s read. I feel like it gave me another perspective into his life that I wasn’t aware of. Because I’ve read a lot of his letters. But getting to know the other things that he read was really cool.

About Middle-earth, I would say I think the biggest thing for me was reflecting on the theme of discernment in Galadriel’s character. And the way that Lothlórien is so pivotal in The Lord of the Rings. I kind of, and maybe this is just from watching the movies so many times, just took it for granted how everything goes down there.

But not only is Galadriel offering Frodo and Sam this choice to either turn back or to go into the road ahead that’s shrouded in darkness. She gives them the opportunity to choose between a path that is known, like a clear path—and that’s to go home—or they will have to choose a path that is in darkness, that they don’t know what they’re going to get into.

And in seeing that Galadriel is going through her own discernment in rejecting the Ring. It’s something that she had thought about for a long time. Tolkien says that when, I think this is in a letter, that when she did finally reject the Ring, it was like she had decided a long time ago that she was going to reject the Ring. But that moment of final rejection was pivotal for her. And so that was something I hadn’t thought about or appreciated it that much until I was writing about it.

I would say the biggest thing for myself was that I realized that I can still be a Hobbit at heart, even though I don’t bake sourdough bread and I don’t have any chickens.

Because I used to almost feel not like a fraud, but like I wasn’t doing a good job because I’m not like I’m not the perfect homemaker. You know, I don’t have that like cottagecore life. And so coming to the realization that it really is a way of living in your heart. It doesn’t really matter if you kill all of your houseplants. You’ll be a Hobbit at heart. So that was very freeing for me because this whole time I’m writing, and it occurred to me like three quarters of the way through the book. I was just feeling bad about myself the whole time. I was like, “I’m not good at any of this. Why am I writing this book?” And then I had a moment where I was like, “Oh, wait: like, yeah, none of that stuff matters.” It’s really a disposition of the heart.

Who better to write about it than in that case, you know, because you’ve really learned it and you’re putting it into practice!

Anything else about the book just in general that you want to share with us?

I’m just so excited for it to finally be out there because it’s been like a two-year-long process of writing and editing and to actually imagine people reading it is just the greatest gift. And I really hope people like it and get something out of it.

I really tried to be very open and welcoming to anyone, especially people who are not religious. My goal with the book is like, this is who I am. And then I want to share with you about who Tolkien is. But I want you to look into your own heart, into your own values. What do you hold dear? What do you feel like your purpose is? And I want to use Tolkien stories to guide you and help you along your own journey because you know who you are. And so I’m not trying to push anything onto anyone, but it’s more like, let’s do this together. And so that’s my goal. And I hope it translated well into the actual book.

I’m confident people who love The Lord of the Rings and want to know more about Tolkien are going to love it. You’re an amazing guide through it.

How do people get a copy of it?

You can go to my website, teawithtolkien.com/book. And I have all of the links like you can get it from: Amazon, my publishers, Ave Maria Press. I saw that it’s on the Barnes and Noble websites on bookshop.org. It should be on Blackwell’s website too. But yeah, so I have all of the links on my website just to make it easier for people.

But you can also just Google the book name and I’m sure it will come up.

Thank you so much, Kaitlyn, for sharing about your book. I really enjoyed it, and I admire it also. I think it’s a worthy effort and I want people to experience it and to go journey into the heart of Middle-earth together with you!

Thank you.

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